Idle DAO Governance Mining

@unicorn I still can’t understand, specifically for this initiative, what you think are the weaknesses, would be useful to understand the argumentation (I’m saying this just because we haven’t tested yet this initiative).

Can you share some examples of Governance Mining initiatives that ended up in failure?

First Reward Distribution :arrow_right: July 20th, 2022

Glad to announce that we’ll select the first 5 addresses to reward for the Governance Mining initiative on Wednesday 20th, July 2022!

The selection and the score computed will follow the instructions written above in the first message of this post.


:warning: Link your forum nickname to your address (and get more score :eyes:)

Sharing a reminder to link your governance forum nickname into the Idle Finance Karma dashboard, in this way you’ll see scoring added for your forum activity as well.

To link it, please follow the guidelines shared by @mmurthy in this post.

@emixprime

I am wondering how this will go further.
I assume this will be every month now, but what with the current activity :sweat_smile:

Are there schedule dates for the next reward moments?

When is the next moment?

What if there is almost no activity in a month?
Sometimes we have multiple proposals (voting rounds) in a month, the other almost nothing or nothing.

How to attract people who anticipate, is there any promotion material to send out? cos new month is already started?!

Wouldn’t be motivated if this gonna be a next flop for this moment.

Shouldn’t the rewards be in Dollars calculated instead of IDLE. Cos now 2000 IDLE is ~$700.
First batch was ~$540
What if 1 IDLE is $10 , is 2000 IDLE ($20.000) still logical? :see_no_evil: i would love to receive it ofcourse. :sweat_smile:

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We’ll continue the initiative for the next month as well while tracking metrics that will help us to understand if the initiative, as was announced, is doing good or not.

Each month counting from the last Gov Mining reward day, so the next one will be on August 21st

In this case the budget won’t be fixed forever. This can be adjusted according to market conditions and the performance of the initiative

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Thnx for the answers.

Is it a fixed budget at the moment a new month starts?
So this month will be 2000 idle again, or??

In my opinion it already should be clear and announced the moment a new month starts.

Ofcourse we don’t want Spam etc. But i do want to see others as motivated as well.

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Here’s another thing:

Off-chain Vote (x3)

On-chain Vote (x5)

Now with:

Stakers vote off-chain

And

Holders on-chain

Therefore they get a different karma score multiplier.

Update:

Also wondering, how to handle double vote/scores ?

Cos someone who has both > staked idle and idle in his private wallet, can vote twice. And therefore get double the karma score for one Snapshot, or on chain vote + Snapshot (for stakers).

Hey @AllinCrypto, going in order:

It won’t be a fixed budget. The amount to be distributed can change according to the market conditions and by following the metrics by which the initiative’s success is measured.

This is something related to game the scoring system, so before giving rewards, the TL will double-check that.

Thanks for this point :raised_hands:

Correct, and we’re trying to fix/manage since the entire snapshot page of stkIDLE is considered, from a monitoring system, as off-chain vote.

To have the same score for everyone, the outcome is to see the votes into polls related to IIPs on stkIDLE snapshot page must have the same score as an on-chain vote.

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@emixprime Thanks for the answers again.

Like mentioned in private, more questions came up in my mind and should be really good thought about.


I think there should be some restrictions at some point.

It seems that everyone can anticipate in getting a pretty big reward at this moment, also people who are new into idle, only vote and have not much in their wallet to anticipate with.

Is it at this point logical that…
Someone who has entered idle this month, bought (for example) 200 idle, anticipated in the 2 snapshots we had… and therefore is in the top 5 now and gets a reward of +500 idle for literally only anticipate in 2 easy voting rounds.

It feels weird for me that it can be that easy to easily get such big reward. Should definitely have some deep thoughts about how to continue with this.


We have seen that people can get double the karma score for voting, just for having stake holdings and private wallet holdings. And vote with both.
In the reward distribution for now is thought of that.
But brings up the next thing.

If someone wants to cheat the system on a other way, he / she can easily anticipate with multiple wallets, especially when there is like at this point, nobody further than me has linked there forum and discord handle.
4 of the 5 persons who are rewarded this month, had it for only Snapshot voting. In theory it can be 4 times the same person with different wallets.


Some options to take in consideration:

A person who wants to anticipate should at least link one of the following:

  • His/her forum profile
  • Her/his discord account

I think the reward should have some restrictions and maybe therefore soms extra calculations.

For example:
A person can’t get a max reward that is not higher then 10 or 20% of his total wallet hodlings.
This are just examples and in my humble opinion needs absolutely more discussion.

I still think that it’s better to reward in dollars instead of idle. Ofcourse the reward itself is in IDLE , but the calculations shouldn’t.
This so that we won’t get big differences each month, especially in rewards.

Example:
In Juni people with the same anticipate had by lowest
222 IDLE > ~$ 66 ?!
This month (July)
273 IDLE > ~$ 82 ?!

(Idle price compared to 30 days ago is pretty much the same)


It’s probably harder but in my opinion more fair, shouldn’t be that hard to make a calculator for it in for example Excel or by coding.

Karma score can give the basic info in anticipation.
But rewards should be for example:

$10,- for every (off chain) Snapshot vote.
$20,- for every on chain vote, they are more important (so therefore extra compensation for gas costs).
$30,- for every legit forum proposal.

Starting from the highest legit karma score down till that month budget exceeds.
As long as there is budget, the more people who are able to get a reward.
If there aren’t enough people who anticipate and there is budget left over, 2 things can happen with it.

  1. Take it to the next 30 days
  2. Reward it to most visible active community member, or someone who did something special/extra that month.

By this the rewards will be much more fair and more people can anticipate then just 5, like @william mentioned and asked.

Example

person 1
Votes 1 time and has 100 idle as voting power
IDLE price $0,30 , max reward $10.
He/she brought in 100 idle so at this moment $30,-
This persons max reward (example, 10%) can not be more then 10 IDLE ( $3,-)

person 2
Votes 2 times , 1 of chain snapshot and one other voting round on chain, he / she has 1000 idle as voting power
IDLE price $0,30
max reward for off chain $10.
max reward for on chain $20.
He/she brought in 1000 idle so at this moment $300,-
This persons max reward (example, 10%) can not be more then 100 IDLE ( $30,-) This is the maximum, so this person is fully rewarded for his/here contributing in to idle.

person 3
Votes 2 times , 1 of chain snapshot and one other voting round on chain, he / she has 1100 idle as voting power.
He / she posted also a forum proposal.
IDLE price $0,30
max reward for off chain $10.
max reward for on chain $20.
max reward for forum proposal $30.
He/she brought in 1100 idle so at this moment $330,-
This persons max reward (example, 10%) can not be more then 110 IDLE ( $33,-) This is NOT the maximum of $60 , cos with his holdings it can’t be higher then 10% of his / her total holding.

So this 3 persons have earned in total 230 IDLE from the 2000 , so this can continue as long as there are users legit to be rewarded.

Ofcourse, these are examples and discord is not tracked yet. But, like multiple times mentioned, the setup should be different to make it a fair play and not get way different end results (rewards) every 30 days.

I had more questions in my mind before, for now this is it. :see_no_evil:

We should literally more deep dive in this reward program, so it gets more attractive and logical for everyone.

I think that bigger rewards should be reserved for on chain voters, so to somewhat ‘refund’ some of the gas costs.

Agree with this


In general as stated before It would be good to see an increased number of partecipants being rewarded and potentially have a lower distributed amount, if there is not a lot of activity, but I don’t think that capping the number of IDLE received, proportionally to the amount owned, is a good idea

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@emixprime How will be votes handled from polls who are active during the moment that the last 30 day reward distribution is calculated?

For example:

Poll starts 20th of a month till 23th that month.
Calculations is 21th of a month.

Someone who votes 20th of the month gets his karma score that day?!
And therefore goes to the last 30 days that will be calculated on the 21th?

Someone who votes 23th of the month gets his karma score that day?!
And therefore goes to the next 30 days that will be calculated 30 days later?

Wondering, cos in the 30 day filter you should only see last 30 days. So a vote on the 20th, won’t be visible on the 21th a month later, this when poll was active till 24th.

@mmurthy is it possible to cheat this system?
So i vote before the distribution and change my vote after the distribution, will it be seen as new vote?

Best solution would be that score distribution starts after a poll is closed and not at the moment a vote is placed. But maybe this is already happening, and these questions are for nothing :see_no_evil:. I only don’t think this happens, cos a score is visible after voting.

Karma will give a score to votes when these are cast (because they track votes based on “created”).

So, if there’s a snapshot poll “in the middle” between the previous tracking period (30 days) and the new one, regardless of the expiration of the snapshot, Karma will assign the score to all the votes that will be created.

No, based on how Karma described tracking the votes, a single “update” of the vote won’t be tracked because won’t be recognized as “created” again.

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Is this program stopped without any announcement or is the 30 day reward for August just late for a reason?

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The #3 governance mining rewards are ready :slightly_smiling_face:

We are a bit late because we have noticed that multiple addresses have tried to cheat the system. Below I explain what I am referring to with the following “rules” change :point_down:

:arrow_right: GOVERNANCE MINING GUIDELINES UPDATE - 09.28.22 :mega:

:bangbang: If you are voting with 0 IDLE, this means you’re trying to cheat the system, and for that, you won’t eligible to get the governance mining rewards :bangbang:

In the latest IIP, we noticed that multiple addresses cast their on-chain vote with 0 IDLE (so no voting power, they are just spending gas fees by casting the on-chain vote).

If you take a look at these addresses, you’ll notice a “Cast Vote” on-chain activity for many DAOs, without having the governance tokens of these DAOs (e.g.,by taking a look at this address):

The reason for doing such a thing is that the on-chain activity is recorded as valid anyway, so for any DAOs initiatives (such as airdrop, retroactive rewards, or the Idle governance mining initiative itself), these addresses turn out to have the voting activity done, thus to be eligible to benefit from those initiatives.


In the case of Idle DAO, this represents cheating the system, thus not being eligible to access governance mining rewards.

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Aren’t the rewards only for IDLE community snapshots and on chain polls, forum and discord activity?

Cos i do see people get scores now for nothing related the above.

Also wondering, what about those who delegated there vote to someone else, are those people getting any score?
In fact those people are still voting. :sweat_smile: but cos someone else do it with their idle, they aren’t rewarded?

Last months a lot is written about this program, but still not a official statement if it will continue or not.
( @Teo )

Even after the last reward, there was a (voting) tweet that promoted the Mining program.
Also, after the last reward it was stated that within a week there would be more information in this topic.

hey @AllinCrypto – As analyzed by @BSBA_Bocconi, the Governance Mining program can be considered officially closed now with the last January distribution. Check out the post below for more detail about it.

Regarding Twitter, or any other public communication from Idle DAO, there won’t be any mention of the Governance Mining program.

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Hi @Teo , thanks for your reply.

It wasn’t clear to me that this report from a student group automatically was the ending.
I thought that the team was coming with his own opinion and conclusion(s) and how to continue.
Wondering what’s next.

Glad to clarify. The report concluded with the fact that the program should’ve been paused and the budget dedicated to other initiatives; the team has been endorsing it in the same post. Either way, stay tuned for the following meta delegates updates in that regard.

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