Idle debit card & app

đź—‚ Proposals đź’ˇ Ideas & Improvements
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An idea came to mind, that I think would make IDLE even more attractive to users, especially being the future face of DeFi. I think it would also help with the several other ideas discussed in the forum.

There’s a project called swipe that I’ve been following for a long time. They are going to be one the leaders in the payment and DeFi space imo. They were acquired by binance last year and swipe runs all the transactions in the backend for binance card. Binance card is just one player using the white label program they offer. Its likely FTX will announce their white label card as well, according to some research I’ve done (even tho not announced). Many players in the space will partake in the white label program.

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They are also interoperable with Ethereum and BinanceChain, which makes things very easy for other platforms to partake. They did all hard work (Legal work, issuing cards, KYC, etc). They are also opened/opening up is all regions around the world.

These cards can enable users to also use Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay. and can be used just like your daily card you have now.

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It cost 25k USD to do standard card issuing or 300k SXP staked to do premium issuing. If community likes it, maybe we can used some unclaimed tokens to buy the 300k SXP to stake while its still cheap. There are also many more benefits to it, but the standard works good too.

I’m pretty sure you can customize everything within the app. (Add your own tiers, bonus system, and IDLE staking). I think you can adjust smart contracts/code the way you want. (I’m talking to CEO directly, so you can post any questions in here and I’ll get them answered for you)

If IDLE were to partake in the white label program, we could likely create a “community referral system, Bonus tiers, and staking system” all combined together and easily integrated inside the app so users can partake. (But even if we didn’t include any of those, it would still be awesome to have Debit card for users). Just that in itself will attract a lot of normies. Like I stated, swipe takes care of all the hard work.

We can then build out a sleek and simple app, with wallet connect feature in it. As users login the app, they can see a clean layout of…

  • List of Strategies & APY
  • Staking option, tiers, bonus
  • Referral option
  • Tools

All rewards, withdrawals will all go straight to wallet, which makes it super easy to spend or convert to any currency they want.

Also, since the KYC and legal stuff is done, it would be a lot easier and quicker to get that milestone goal “Direct Fiat Onramp deposit in IDLE”

Everyone is on mobile nowadays, so I think having an simple app is clutch, just like the sleek website IDLE currently has. And I truly believe it will be easier and better to intergrade all the other ideas discussed in here with something like this in place.

Anyways, just figured I’d share in case team or community gets anymore ideas from it. I know I didn’t post too much detail, but if community likes it, we can build off ideas from the info share here.

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How does debit card work with coin locked in defi?
Do you have to pay gas every time you make a purchase? Or they loan you and then batch later?

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IDLE would be “locked” in Idle app, if Idle decides to create some sort of referral/staking system/tier system within the app to either share platform fees easily or w.e team thinks of.

The app can be an area where users can easily invest in IDLE protocol in a easy way since everyone has mobile/smart phone, but it can also be used as a normal wallet where users keep funds or w.e. All future idle rewards can be accessed/deposited in app.

There will many features/new utility created for IDLE down the road, so I’m sure there’s some way to make a good app with good benefits with all they have planned.

And there’s no gas fees when you integrate with swipe. So users can spend with ease without worrying about anything else.

Not sure if that answers everything

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Also to add some extra possibilities.

But this could only happen once MAKER accepted IDLE as collateral to mint DAI.

Is if in the future (if app and debit card idea went through), all IDLE users could easily stake/collateralize their IDLE through the app to mint DAI. Then they could then easily spend their DAI with the card right away.

It would allow for extra utility “indirect staking” right from the app and would give community an easy way to use spend their DAI. I personally would lock up IDLE in app to generate DAI. Basically taking out a loan on yourself that is tax free. Spend as you wish and easily pay back all through the app. Would dry up idle supply too.

From there, you could also easily create lending, borrowing, and savings section as well, which would build up the treasury. All of this can happen once Idle is accepted by MAKER.

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Hey @Falcone, thanks for bringing up another good point.

DeFi is catching a lot of attention from traditional finance and I see that many people are willing to hold stablecoins regardless of the crypto/technology features.

A debit card would allow users to jump from Idle lending to fiat spending in a few steps, allowing the protocol to cover the entire chain (from fiat-on-ramp to in-shop spending).

Whitelabel solutions are definitely the fastest way. We can assume that it would be cumbersome for a permissionless protocol to directly lead the card issuing and the KYC, especially because regulators need to talk with legal bodies.

The whitelabel would increase the centralization of the services provided by protocol, because we add many actors in this service (banks, card issuer, whitelabel provider). If one of those has a bad behaviour (e.g. card blocked by the bank, defaults like WireCard), the protocol itself is heavily damaged. Other cons might be the costs for retails (fees are usually higher for crypto debit cards than fintech companies).

It would be very helpful to have more info on how a permissionless protocol can issue a card without relying on a legal entity. It’d definitely be innovative for DeFi.

Keen to hear other opinions on this, it would be great to see a DAO that starts collaborating with other “traditional” entities!

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I’m sorry but I don’t agree. Idle must remain decentralized and without KYC. In addition, the on-chain costs for card spending would be too expensive because of the gas.
In any case it seems that Swipe has had quite a few problems both with the cards and with the management in general.

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+1… any sort of kyc directly on idle and I am out.

I would rather promote integration of the idle protocol (deposits) and of idle token directly inside existing crypto cards like monolith (where user controls the private key)

It would be a win win situation where 3rd party card users would have access to a idle savings account (good way to earn on their balances) and only interested idle users would kyc to have access to a atm card option.

I am familiar with another project where a DAO incorporated it’s own church (it’s just a non profit charity organization basically) just for the purpose of having a legal structure to be able to white label a product. But still 1 person had to dox itself initially.

You can learn more about legal structures for DAOs here:
https://epicenter.tv/episodes/376

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Yes, there’s definitely some perks like you mentioned for going the debit card route eventually.

Also, It wouldn’t make everyone using IDLE have to KYC. (It would be an optional service for those who want to KYC and be able to spend their funds with benefits of debit card)

Swipe is becoming their own bank, to alleviate some of issues users have. Think of it as the new Binance and Swipe bank basically.

Debit card services will always remain a centralized issue since they’re key personal dealing with card manufactures and legal side of things for every country, but the benefits/roadmap/tiers/any adjustments that is made is decentralized. You can view all the things that have been successfully voted on and implemented in the link below.

What would be smart, is to use some of the unclaimed funds, to get the 300k sxp needed (while price is still cheap and so we can benefit from the premium services they offer down the road, if IDLE ever decides to take that step).

Not only that, but the APY will remain 20-30% for staking sxp, so we can use that as back up for premium services for once we decide to do it, but as well as sell the staking rewards and use them to buyback and burn IDLE from the market. So as swipe become bigger and more successful, the more the rewards will be, which means more buyback and burns for IDLE. Also they way swipe is designed, there a natural buyback and burn mechanism for their token as well.

Also, with 300k sxp, we can have a voice in the direction of the swipe protocol as well. We can create proposals as well as have a decent weight in direction of votes. (we could even buy more if we voted on it and thought it was beneficial, which I recommend).

So imo opinion you wont have to worry much about bad actors, and the cost for retails you mentioned is not an issue due to the way they designed their system.

I think passing a vote to use some of that unclaimed IDLE to buy the required sxp for all the reasons listed above is smart.

To address Fede response…

To be fair, the card doesnt have much issues and they were attacked by a huge fud group intentionally. I was there and witnessed all of it. I also use their services and is very good. Support/management hasn’t been on point because they had expanded too fast and couldn’t handle the work load (which is a good thing in a way). But they recently got a new office and trained up a bunch of new support/hired more ppl.

Since binance announced the acquisition and started rolling out their binance cards, swipe they got back logged due to the large amount of users binance has that had ordered cards (Remember Swipe handles all the issuing and support). Also, card manufactures got backlogged by demand as well. But everything is getting a lot better and they’re getting ready for massive campaign. This is why binance has focused on regions like Africa as well as other countries to release debit card. It will be global (and remember, every time someone make a purchase, a small portion of that fee goes to to swipe open market buy back and burns). System is deflationary by design.

To address unicorn

We can design system in a way where users have their private key wallet, but have the option to choose if they want withdrawals or rewards to go to the 3rd party address for extra perks like IDLE savings like you mentioned. Also, all funds in swipe platform are insured up to 100million and backed by bitgo and other big hands.

But basically, Swipe will be huge and there’s really no competition that comes close. Not even MCO or other cards. IMO its also a matter of time before MCO starts going under anyways (but I wont discuss that here).

Once again if we get in early

  • We can have the sxp needed to get premium white label program, if we ever decide to go that route. And getting that amount while its this cheap is smart imo. And we will be able to have all those premium perks.
  • IDLE will have a voice in the direction swipe takes, by being able to have heavy vote weight as well as be able to create proposals that can serve in IDLEs favor.
  • We can use staking rewards to sell and buyback and burn IDLE from the open market. So as swipe grows as an ecosystem, the burns will be larger for IDLE, which naturally grows the IDLE MC.

Its a win win win imo. There is only upward growth for them, especially with so much getting ready to rollout. We can easily vote to use some funds to buy the amount needed. Its not much at the moment and wont require much of the unclaimed IDLE to be used.

And remember staking will be 20-30% for several years and then after those years, the stakers will earn no more APY, but instead will receive a cut of all the platform fees generated.

So IDLE will have 13mil max supply and the following occuring…

  • Indirect staking with MAKER to mint DAI
  • Staking for referral bonus
  • Smart Treasury Idle market buy back and burns
  • Tranche system IDLE “staking/needed to partake in high yield”
  • And now IDLE market buy back and burns, by selling SXP rewards.

Its a win win win win win imo.

I will share some random slides below, to maybe help you guys see the potential if IDLE makes the right decision and bags up a good portion of the ecosystem now. (once again lets just put a vote on it and see if community is ok with buy and staking SXP tokens and pilot league/treasury can manage everything)

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I will keep my thoughts brief: it’s not possible for a decentralized structure to white label a card. It will require the incorporation of a legal structure.
Idle protocol is not that. That would have to be something outside of idle. That’s what you are proposing that treasury funds are sent to.

The other alternative is composability… Let the existing atm cards add idle governance token as a supported erc20 and also offer their clients “savings accounts” on their balances by connecting with the idle protocol.

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Roger. I understand, but couldn’t we put an application through the pilot league, to see if anyone wants to partake in managing that specific task in setting up a legal structure and being “CEO”? And then we can just create mechanism somehow to still give us power to replace CEO, if job is not going good? And then still allow us to pass votes through in IDLE governance in what should get implemented in legal structure?

Seems like we have many applicants with great experience, so I’m sure it wouldn’t take long to find someone.

You mentioned we need to form a legal entity for white label card, so I guess we’ll avoid that completely then, if the above doesn’t occur. And we can remove the idea of having the option of having withdrawals go to 3rd party address ass well; Users can do that on their own if they choose.

I can see many protocols intergrading with IDLE due to IDLE rebalancing innovation and especially with B2B referral system in place. So likely that last part you brought up will occur on its own and IDLE will spread like wild fire.

But even if we don’t do a white label program due to decentralization issue and legal entity needed, I still think its good if we cast a vote to use some of the funds to buy a large share of the swipe ecosystem (which we can do correct without legal entity setup?): due to all the benefits brought up…

  • We can have the sxp needed to get premium white label program (if we ever decide to go that route with legal entity setup) to able to have all those premium perks.
  • IDLE will have a voice in the direction swipe takes, by being able to have heavy vote weight as well as be able to create proposals that can serve in IDLEs favor.
  • We can use staking rewards to sell and buyback and burn IDLE from the open market. So as swipe grows as an ecosystem, the burns will be larger for IDLE, which naturally grows the IDLE MC.

It would amplify our IDLE burn dramatically, on top of everything else mentioned. Its almost like a double burn mechanism created for IDLE as well as both tokens being deflationary. It would create massive and constant buying pressure and naturally increase MC. And if swipe is extremely successful, we will benefit dramatically.

  • Indirect staking with MAKER to mint DAI
  • Staking for referral bonus
  • Smart Treasury Idle market buy back and burns
  • Tranche system IDLE “staking/needed to partake in high yield”
  • And now IDLE market buy back and burns, by selling SXP rewards.
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Yes. That is possible… Needs some creativity (and yearly budget for operations) but it’s doable.

I would love to have someone from swipe or the LAO adding their thoughts here.

Also…i bet the original IDLE’s team considered that path (going corporate) but they decided to do a fair launch instead and go full DeFi… It would be funny if the DAO decides to flip and go back to traditional finance lol

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+1 on some of the concerns that @unicorn has with the debit card idea.

More importantly, however, I’m not sure if spending the resources and efforts in this area is actually worthwhile. There are already other projects out there that are already doing an amazing job with debit cards (like Monolith). Issuing our own card should only be justified imo if users are finding it a pain point to have to transfer from IDLE > ie. Monolith and we’re providing a value prop here by issuing our own white-labeled card in order to eliminate that pain point. It could be a pain point but we’d need more user feedback to know - my gut feeling is that it’s probably a non/small issue atm.

Being a decentralized rebalancing/asset allocation protocol, we’re creating a product that’s meant for investing, and creating our own white-labeled card (meant for spending) would sorta be contradictory to what we’ve been focused on building. I’d much prefer we allocate our resources and effort to expanding the depth of our existing products. ie I really really liked the idea of implementing tranches that was posted as another proposal awhile back which would be laser-focused on what idle’s been building already. I’m not completely opposed to the debit card idea, but 1) we should first deduce if we’re really providing a strong value prop by issuing our own card and 2) prioritize on differentiating idle further from other rebalancing/asset allocation defi projects before we get deeper into issuing white-labeled debit cards.

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There is the Eidoo card too, it’s near do go to the users’s hands, I think just some months… And it will be works on L2 of Loopring for minimize the cost of gas.

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Monolith/Eidoo… ALL cards that don’t offer yet “savings accounts” to their users should integrate the idle protocol.

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Good idea.

Maybe team can reach out to Monolith, Eidoo, and trustwallet.

They all need some sort of “Earn” section. And with that token helper, it should be fairly easy for them to do, right?

Trustwallet only offers staking for certain chains at the moment, so this would be very clutch and beneficial for them to add. Plus they have a user base of 5 million users that would see that new section and know about IDLE within one announcement and notification of app update.

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Hey @Falcone just a question: do you have any business or other relationships with Binance since you make all proposals that involve the relationship with them? This doubt is rising to me … :thinking: :thinking:

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No lol. I’m just an average joe and do pest control for a living. Been in blockchain since 2017. I just love the blockchain space and like keeping up with projects from all sides. Filecoin, DOT, LivePeer, Cudos, Zilliqa, Swipe, The Graph, Yearn, and all of DeFi space. By the way, out of all my proposals, only thing that involves “binance” is the swipe platform I enjoy using peronsaly and know they will be big. And the 2nd was intergration into their chain because thats just common sense imo to tap into other networks that offer DeFi.

I just see what binance is doing right now and its pretty crazy and smart how they’re rolling things out along the acquisitions they made last year. They’re timing things perfectly and are going to achieve explosive growth in a very short amount of time, especially with this DeFi and alt season around the corner.

So I figured maybe we can propose a grant to find a couple ppl to start working on the basics for what IDLE does on binance chain, even if its for several Defi protocols. It would at least get us the foot in the door.

I just thought it wouldn’t take too much time with the bridge they offer and the EVM thing that easily allows for ETH projects work on their chain. That’s the only reason I brought it up, because the potential is huge and didn’t seem like too much work was required. I agree 100% that focus should remain on ETH and the roadmap milestones.

I just know that once IDLE gets traction, there will be a copycat in the space for their chain and we end up losing first mover advantage there (which is billions and billions of liquidity that will lose out on). Even tho ETH alone will be extremely massive and will allow IDLE to grow very fast and be successful.

Once again, I just thought it wouldn’t require too much time or man power to get the process started and the potential is big. BUT im no DEV or know about the tech side of things. I just brought it up just in case the community liked the idea. I don’t mind at all if we don’t intergrade.

P.S my biggest bag in my portfolio is IDLE hehe, so I want the best for them. I also enjoy sharing ideas because my brain is constantly thinking of random crap. Im just sharing ideas that I think would be beneficial from a business standpoint. And trustwallet has 5 million users and no “Earn” section.

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Ahah cool, I’m not a dev too and I need to work too for living… at the moment :sweat_smile: :joy:

Don’t forget that Binance is a huge international company with millions of dollars (if not billions) behind it, Idle is a “small” and young start-up.
We do not have the money-power that Binance can have, we must focus on improving the existing protocol and platform to facilitate investors. Maybe, in a future, it will be possible to evaluate any new possibilities. :blush:

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Great to see all the applications here!

I’d like to propose that applicants express their views on the topic of Idle card idea. It should be a good way to show to the community their reasoning and approach to handling proposals.

@Teo, @8bitporkchop, @simoneconti, @ETM612, @Salome, @Cippo, @emixprime, @wlamhk - thank you and looking forward to hearing from you.

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Great Idea Idal!

I like the idea behind a Idle card in general i am gonna express concerns and benefits I see in it briefly:

Benefits:

-A card would definitely bring new users

-easy way to on-ramp in fiat

-idle brand push

-simple use in an app

-idle gets connected with traditional finance

Concerns:

-kyc

-legal structure involves a lot of costs

-reputation of idle in case either the card provider or a Idle Dao has issues

-I also think its important to realize what it involves to have a legal structure (paper work, a „head“ of the legal structure, accounting , Audits, legal work and so on…)

An alternative would be that Idle works on partnership with current crypto cards like crypto.com and Monolith (no schilling just examples :slight_smile: ) to enable users to hold/stake (in the future). In that way we could enable users a direct Fiat Onramp deposit in IDLE from current crypto card providers without having to set up a DAO with a legal structure. Moreover in case of a issue with the card providers(what we all seen with a lot of crypto cards in the past) would not be any reputation issues for the „idle brand“.

This is my personal opinion and doesn’t reflect the role of the „project Manager“. I would let the supervisors having the last call about that and let the community vote about all the options they bring up.

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